Rating intermediate speed play

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Rating intermediate speed play

Postby MadChess » Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:09 pm

Hi

First of all,
Many many many Great thanks to everyone involve in this project !
You have my deep respect ;)
You can't even imagine how much I missed Kung Fu Chess after its closure.
By the way, Judo chess really couldn't be more well coded as it is. It's hard to find feature to ask.
(even Gong without sounds is available !!)


One I think of,
as you maybe noticed, I quite "hate" fast play. So, to force me to play faster (AND, to force other people to play slower)
it would be nice to be able to rate intermediate speed play.

For example, if a rated game is set with Move speed to 0,7 and Move delay to 10 (my feature request is only based on speed) :

If i win this game,
I will earn [0,7 * points] I should have normaly taken (compare to my opponent strenght), in my Standard statistics
AND i will earn [0,3 * points] I should have normaly taken, in my Fast Standard statistics

obviously, this kind of formula will take effect if I lose.


The only question is how to calculate the original rating of each player to find out how many points you should win (or lose)
what is my original rating at a Move speed of 0,7 ? (0,7 * Standard rating + 0,3 Fast Standard rating) / 2 ?

Hope you understood what I meant.
MadChess
 
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Re: Rating intermediate speed play

Postby firehawkv » Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:34 pm

I've thought we should have intermediate speed ratings as well. My way would be to do something like...

If move speed x10 + cool down time <6 then rating mode = fs,
if move speed x10 + cool down time >=6 and <12 then rating mode = intermediate (come up with a name),
if move speed x10 + cool down time >=12 then rating mode = standard,

(These numbers are approximate and could be adjust to whatever seems to work best)

The maximum possible value is 20 (move speed of 1, multiply by 10 plus cooldown speed of 10 = 20).
The minimum is 2 ( (0.1x10) + 1)

To save space (and make it so ffw, bug, zh etc can be played rated at other speeds) I would make it so there are 5 mode buttons for viewing rating (currently there are six).
2 player, 4 player, bughouse, crazyhouse and 4 way crazyhouse. Below that will be a three buttons that are speed based for viewing rating. fast, intermediate and slow.
firehawkv
 
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Re: Rating intermediate speed play

Postby devilant » Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:55 am

Thanks for the feedback MadChess.

It sounds like you don't really want rated intermediate speed play. What you really want is more players who want to play standard. And just more players in general. Right?
devilant
 
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Re: Rating intermediate speed play

Postby MadChess » Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:57 pm

devilant wrote:It sounds like you don't really want rated intermediate speed play. What you really want is more players who want to play standard. And just more players in general. Right?


No,

Well, of course I really hope the number of standard players will grow up, instead of the very very few we are now.
(which is also much more fun to watch than speed play imho)

But the the real purpose of this request is to being able to rate intermediate speed play.
Sounds weird and sad to me that you can rate the both extreme speed, "slow" and very fast speed, but not the whole range of speed between them. While you can play those intermediate speed.

For example, a 1/1 setting game is a completely different way of playing and thinking (and real fun btw), why can't you rate this game if you want to ?


I personnaly prefer my way of calculation, which is more smoothy imho.
And dislike also the creation of an intermediate rating.
(JudoChess GUI should be even more simple and refined as possible, that's why i fully agree with others firehawkv suggestions)

But integrate the "move delay" in the formula like firehawkv does would be great of course.
Can be done this way, with the same example as my first post :

If a rated game is set with Move speed to 0,7 and Move delay to 10 :

If i win this game,
I will earn [0,7 + (10 / 10)] / 2 ==> 0,85 * points I should have normaly taken (compare to my opponent strenght), in my Standard statistics
AND i will earn 1 - 0,85 ==> 0,15 * points I should have normaly taken, in my Fast Standard statistics

Of course, system should stock rating in real number, and GUI should display the integer.
MadChess
 
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Re: Rating intermediate speed play

Postby devilant » Sat Feb 07, 2015 4:40 am

Okay, well I don't agree with this one. I just don't see a need for it. Sorry.
devilant
 
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Re: Rating intermediate speed play

Postby firehawkv » Wed Feb 18, 2015 5:46 pm

devilant wrote:Okay, well I don't agree with this one. I just don't see a need for it. Sorry.


While most other speeds would not get much play if they were rated (no one is going to play 1/10 ffw), there are a few speeds that get played a reasonable amount unrated and would probably get played more if rated.

0.3/3 to 0.5/5 two player. This is a good speed for players who think fs is too fast, but don't want to play as slow as standard. It is also a good training speed for new players who are adjusting to fs. I think it would be played a fair amount if made rated.

0.2/2 and 0.3/3 ffw. Not sure how many would play this, but I've seen it played before. Not that often. Slower players and new players might enjoy the somewhat slower speed though.

crazyhouse (bughouse and four way crazyhouse) at 0.1/1 or 0.2/2. I imagine this would get more play than the current 0.8/8 (0.5/5 and 0.3/3) (not any of them get much). A lot of players like speed.

There are quite a few players who would like to be able to play rated games, without being forced to choose between the slowest possible and the faster possible speeds. Seems like it wouldn't be all that hard to at least add an additional rating group for normal two-player (any speed that isn't 0.1/1 or 1/10), see how that goes over and decide if you want to do something more complex based on how much play it gets.
firehawkv
 
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Re: Rating intermediate speed play

Postby MadChess » Sun Mar 01, 2015 6:03 am

Cant be more agree with firehawkv.

Can't understand why it's not possible to play thoses intermediate speed rated.
It's just nonsense.

As fire said, at least put some intermediate rating statistics if the smooth way is too "complicated" to code.
MadChess
 
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Re: Rating intermediate speed play

Postby thebobssj4 » Tue Aug 02, 2016 4:35 pm

Awful idea.






Maybe I'm being too conservative, but this would really move things in the wrong direction.
Is the suggestion for another whole game (2-way half speed?). There are already ~5 games available, and you want to add yet another--It's hard enough these days to get anyone to play just 1 game together.
Or are we blending ranks across speeds of the game--effectively making standard and fast ranks worth shit.
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